#57: The Truth About Medjugorje, Part I—Donal Foley
On June 24, 1981, a clear Wednesday afternoon, some young people went up Podbrdo Hill near the small hamlet of Medjugorje in then Yugoslavia. When they came down, they told people they saw “the Gospa,” (Croatian for “Our Lady”). A few more joined them, and it happened again.
And again. And again.
Today, three decades later, the six teen-aged seers are middle-aged adults and are still getting these visitations along with alleged secrets, signs, and warnings. A global movement supporting these visions has been selling the phenomenon as real, quite in opposition to the official stance of the Catholic Church.
What is the official stance? What is the truth about Medjugorje? I spoke with British historian and researcher Donal Foley about the whole story behind the visions, about the assessment by the local bishops (and every official commission that ever investigated the seers’ claims), and about the criteria the Church uses to approve or condemn private apparitions.
There are undoubtedly good fruits associated with the phenomenon, there are many more in the bad category.
Foley’s book Medjugorje Revisited: 30 Years of Visions or Religious Fraud? is a must-read for anyone interested in the most popular unapproved apparition in history. It is the definitive account. (Full disclosure: I wrote the Preface).
There are three groups of people on the Medjugorje spectrum: 1) true believer zealots for whom not even an angel from heaven will convince them otherwise; 2) sarcastic naysayers; and 3) the much larger group in the middle—people who are either on the fence, ignorant of the details, or who don’t care one way or the other. This two-part series is for the benefit of that much larger middle group.
One American theologian told me privately, “Medjugorje is not only unapprovable; it’s a giant tar baby. Whoever touches it gets sticky tar all over himself.” So why am I doing it? Clickbait? Attention? No, I’m covering it because I’m tired of seeing ordinary Catholics (including busy priests) getting hectored and lectured by aggressive followers of Medjugorje. It’s all too much.
The Medjugorje Movement dominates the publishing and internet world, fleeces good people of millions of dollars based on half-truths and outright lies, and—the main point—people have a right to know the full story. One searches in vain among the scores of books and websites peddling the phenomenon for descriptions of its serious problems. Most pilgrims are kept largely in the dark.
This is a problem.
I have dear friends whom I love and respect who believe the Blessed Virgin Mary continues to appear to the seers. I hope they’re not too upset with me. Even before this episode aired, my Facebook page was jammed with angry devotees accusing me of “hurting people,” of “turning people from God,” of “going on some kind of crusade,” and the like. Very strange. If I did a program about why I think no Catholics don’t really need to believe in Fatima or Lourdes or our Lady of Guadalupe to be saved — no one would melt down or lash out (pick your metaphor). Raise one eyebrow of reserved concern about Medjugorje? Duck!
Apparently, there’s no soft way to say in public that the Church has never wavered in the official judgment, starting with the late Bishop Pavao Zanic, and now Bishop Ratko Peric of the Diocese of Mostar-Duvno/Trebinje-Mrkan (to whom the Church gives the right and duty to judge apparitions). The Latin phrase is non constat de supernaturalitate, meaning, “it is not established that anything supernatural is happening.” It’s a negative judgment, and the Church has never wavered from it.
Medjugorje enthusiasts are quick to say that it’s not negative, per se, that it simply means something like, “Wait and see the final approval—in the meantime, go there so you, too, can discover that the Blessed Mother is appearing.” That logic won’t work, for the same reason that if a man asks a woman to marry him and she says, “Let me get back to you” — that’s a no. It’s only yes if she accepts.
Despite the harassment and weird guilt trips (“Mother is calling — what are you afraid of?”) employed by the enthusiasts, it is perfectly fine for Catholics to disbelieve the claims of Medjugorje. Even approved apparitions like Fatima and Lourdes are not binding on the faithful.
The results of the final investigative Ruini Commission (initiated by Pope Benedict XVI in 2009 and chaired by Cardinal Camillo Ruini of Rome) have been on the desk of Pope Francis for two years now. A rumor floated around the internet last year that the Commission was set to approve “the first seven” apparitions—a rumor based on information leaked to a pro-Medjugorje Italian journalist). We simply don’t know what Pope Francis will ultimately say. His public statements, off-the-cuff and unofficial as they are, do not look favorable.
In addition to my interview this week with Donal Foley, interested readers will want to read the summary regarding that first week in late June, 1981, compiled by Bishop Ratko Peric (see bottom.) The summary is based on the taped interviews with the seers, and provide strong evidence against the claims, particularly the first seven apparitions. If only 10% of it is accurate, Medjugorje has about the same chances of approval as I do of winning gold in the giant slalom.
Please note that this is not an “anti-Medjugorje” position. It’s a pro-Catholic, pro-Marian one. As with most disputes in the Church, this one is ultimately about authority. The legitimate authority of the local bishop, His Excellency Ratko Peric, has been rejected, derided, and been the object of non-stop calumny.
I pray that this conversation with Mr. Foley will be of great value to you and I highly recommend his comprehensive book on the matter, and also his Marian Apparitions, the Bible, and the Modern World.
After this episode, you will know:
- The long history of disobedience by the Franciscans serving in the local diocese
- The official judgment of the Church, what it means, and why it is so
- The disturbing, occultic elements of the visions of Medjugorje you won’t read about in pro-Medjugorje websites and books
- Why ex-Franciscan friar Tomislav Vlasic, one of the original self-described spiritual directors of the seers (and the man of whom “the Gospa” told the seers, “Thank Tomislav very much for he is guiding you very well. Go in the peace of God, my angels!”—February 28, 1982) was defrocked in 2009 by Pope Benedict XVI
- Why the Church doesn’t bind the faithful even to approved private apparitions
Resources mentioned in this episode
Marian Apparitions, the Bible, and the Modern World by Donal Foley
Medjugorje Revisited: 30 Years of Visions or Religious Fraud? By Donal Foley
The Medjugorje Deception: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives by Dr. E. Michael Jones
VERY IMPORTANT: Bishop Ratko Peric, the local Ordinary, has compiled the following summary of the first week of apparitions here:
http://md-tm.ba/clanci/first-seven-days-apparitions-medjugorje
Join the Conversation
Question of the week:
With the embarrassment of riches we already have—the Blessed Trinity, the sacraments, the papacy, the magisterium, the Holy Bible, approved apparitions—why do some people still attach themselves to unapproved apparitions?
Next week’s episode, Part 2, where questions solicited from Facebook cheerfully answered! Don’t miss it. Share this episode.
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19 Responses
Well Patrick. You should feel like a real fool as Says uses you for his glory. Medjugorje has Officially been approved for the first 7 Apparitions.
I have been going for 12 years the Fruits are the proof. Over 7000 men have become Priest. Over 2000 ladies have become Nuns. They have been tested in every way pissposs.
I feel sad for you to do this against Jesus and Mary. My total healing came there. I have witnessed miracle after Miracle and the Devil would never produced 7000 men to become Priest. And are STRONG SACRED TRADITIONAL PRIEST. Both of you men are in my prayers. Go there yourself and see what is truly Happened. Over 800 documented healings there than Lourdes. Father Jozo is a close friend and you need to listen to him
Wow. Thanks for verifying the complete brainwashing this bizarre spectacle instills. Breathtaking. (I think you meant Satan uses me for his glory, not Says. I’m guessing.) Stop lying: Medj has never been approved. You can easily prove me wrong by pasting the official document.
I remember a friend who used to go. He was a believer. I spoke to a very nice lady who ran a Christian bookstore, who got very serious when it was brought up. She was also a believer. I don’t know how anyone can be a believer in this, especially since seeing the “flinch” of the “seer”. I’m sure you know to what I am referring. People in ecstasy don’t flinch. I’ll watch the video now.
Hi there. The notion that an aggressive flinch in Vicka’s face (not all ecstasies are in complete suspension of the senses) invalidates the entire phenomenon is simply a faulty understanding of the Church’s evalution of private revelation. Not only that, but under far more rigorous scientific evaluation on several occasions, scientists concluded: “The ecstasies are not pathological, nor is there any element of deceit. No scientific discipline seems able to describe these phenomena. The apparitions at Medjugorje cannot be explained scientifically. In one word, these young people are healthy, and there is no sign of epilepsy, nor is it a sleep, dream, or trance state. It is neither a case of pathological hallucination nor hallucination in the hearing or sight facilities” (8:201-204; “Science Tests the Visionaries”).
But the most significant point is that the Ruini Commission appointed by Benedict XVI has access to all the facts and arguments that the likes of Donal Foley puts forth (and that you suggest above), and they also interviewed the seers themselves. This is why Foley, Coffin, you or me are not qualified to make the ultimate judgment on Medjugorje and ought, in patience, charity and humility, await the Church’s discernment. And so far, the discernment is that Catholics can go there, can hear and discern the alleged messages, but cannot take for granted their authenticity at this point. In other words, the usual.
Note, the Vatican Insider reported the leaked conclusions of the Ruini Commission, saying:”The committee argues that the six young seers were psychically normal and were caught by surprise by the apparition, and that nothing of what they had seen was influenced by either the Franciscans of the parish or any other subjects. They showed resistance in telling what happened despite the police [arresting] them and death [threats against] them. The Commission also rejected the hypothesis of a demonic origin of the apparitions.” Pope Francis publicly stated his appreciation of the Commission’s report.
AMEN. Satan loves putting doubt in the minds of Mary’s children 😪
You have obviously not been. I am a 17 year Convert and have never once Judged an Apparition. Who am I to tell God where HE is sending HIS mother to heal His Children?
Wow. Be careful there. When you do go your heart will know the Truth
Archbishop Hosser approved the First 7 Apparitions and on Mothers Day this year announced that the Universal Church Priest can form trips in their church and go. It has the Vatican Approval.
As long as the Apparitions are going which they will until the great Miracle occurs (which will happen there ) over 2 million hosts a Year are given out. June 2 2016 Darrin was healed completely in a Wheelchair most of his life. I have known him for 10 years. I suggest those who judge it RUN to confession then visit and ask Our Lady is she ther . Lol
Trust me. She will let you know ❤😁🙏
No he didn’t. Thanks. You can easily prove me wrong by posting the document here.
The whole premise of your intro is faulty and antagonisitc. It essentially classifies anyone who vocally supports or defends Medjugorje as a blind “fanatic” and “zealot.” Your immediate bias is a turn-off for anyone looking for an intellectual assessment that does not demonize millions of people, not to mention JPII, Cardinal Schoonborn, Bishop Gilbry, Archbishop Hoser and many other in the hierarchy who have approached Medjugorje using the theological tools and discernment of Catholic theology regarding “private revelation.” Your own aggressive name-calling and rock-throwing to those who challenge your “facts” reveals an ironic truth: you’re as zealous and fanatical about your own position as anyone else you accuse… even as the Vatican moves increasingly toward a positive position—first by authorizing official pilgrimages (which Pope Francis would NOT do if he felt this was a hoax or demonic deception since he himself is not as positive), and second, by the results of a commission which has given a positive decision to the first seven apparitions there, though that report is not official as yet.
There is no problem with you not believing in Medjugorje, Patrick. It’s when you attack bishops, cardinals, and laymen who agree with what the Ruini Commission has now concluded, that you are grossly over-stepping your bounds. It’s when you also attack the integrity of the seers that you enter the arena of slander as you contradict the Ruini Commission’s own determination of the seers integrity, which everyone from the first Muslim doctor to the scientists who examined them, all concluded: “the six young seers were psychically normal and were caught by surprise by the apparition, and that nothing of what they had seen was influenced by either the Franciscans of the parish or any other subjects. They showed resistance in telling what happened despite the police [arresting] them and death [threats against] them. The Commission also rejected the hypothesis of a demonic origin of the apparitions.” (Ruini Commission, as reported in Vatican Insider).
If you don’t believe in Medjugorje as an authentic apparition, fine, move on. But when you use your airwaves and social media to ridicule, mock, and marginalize others who don’t agree with your personal opinon, which flies in the face of not only the Ruini Commission, but Cardinal Ratzinger (who has steadfastly rejected the Bishop of Mostar’s judgment to the point of relegating it to his “personal opinion”), you come across as rather desperate (for reasons not yet apparent, though you prefaced a book that is becoming increasingly irrelevant in the face of the Vatican’s momentum and the obvious fruits of this place that meet the very basics of discernment). You say you are trying to be “pro-Catholic and pro-Marian”, but you apparently reject the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s guidelines which REQUIRE that such phenomenon…”bear fruits by which the Church herself might later discern the true nature of the facts.”(Norms Regarding the Manner of Proceeding in the Discernment of Presumed Apparitions or Revelations, n. 2). Would nearly 40 years qualify as “later”? Would millions of conversions and hundreds of vocations and nearly two million youth coming to this Marian Shrine yearly qualify? If they were leaving the Church, or opposing the papacy or promoting liberalism, you might have a case. But when they are going to Confession, Eucharistic Adoration, and then returning home to spread the Gospel, start ministries, enter the priesthood or religious life… the arguments “against “begin to look rather petty and silly.
At a time when the world is attacking the Catholic Church, it’s sad to see you attacking your brothers and sisters in Christ with this kind of hubris. Sorry, but you’re the one coming off a bit of a “zealot”. Go back to what you do best: comedy. This isn’t very funny.
You made my day. Typical Medj hyperbole “ridicule/mock/attack/marginalize” etc. If you stop hiding behind a fake name, I’ll let you post again. I don’t engage FNCs (fake name cowards). Even now you seem unaware that Medj is not approved by the Catholic Church. Nothing to do with my opinion or yours.
Of course it’s not approved. Neither was Fatima for 13 years, which did not lessen its message in those years just because it was not “approved” (ie. it was still approved by Heaven). The Church has never taught that suspended judgment means that an alleged apparition/locution etc., should thus be ignored or is irrelevant. Rather, St. Paul’s words apply, and most especially when the phenomenon has world-wide ramifications: “Do not despise prophecy. Test everything. Retain what is good.” In other words, this is the time of testing—which is why you and those who support Medjugorje ought to remain in communion with the Pope on this matter, respect the Vatican’s ongoing discernment, and not damn or subjectivtely approve any alleged private revelation that is still under ecclessial review. Or in the words of the Bishop of Mostar: “While waiting for the results of the Commission’s work and the Church’s verdict, let the Pastors and the faithful honor the practice of the usual prudence in such circumstances.” (signatory, Cardinal Franjo Kuharic, president of the Yugoslavian Conference of Bishops and by Bishop Pavao Zanic of Mostar).
It is neither prudent for Catholics to state unequivocally that the apparitions are true nor false (as you have done). Neither “zealot” is acting in humility.
P.S. I see you’ve allowed other “anonymous” comments below. It’s common practice today. Who cares?
I disagree with anonymous internet presence but do not ban comments that are benign. It’s when FNCs start debating me, hiding behind a faux handle. Medj fans like you are so desperate to validate the absurd Croatian chatterbox phenomenon that they keep identifying it with Fatima. Sad.
Actually, anyone could pick a name out of the blue like “Anna Thomas” or “Blake Laney” and post here, and it’s still essentially anonymous. The Disqus format doesn’t guarantee anything, except a platform to discuss views. If you’re not interested in that, I would just delete Disqus altogether.
Question: if one goes to Lourdes or Fatima to pray, does that make them “Lourdes Fans” or “Fatima devotees”, or are they just Catholics trying to grow closer to God? And during the period before approval of Lourdes and Fatima, were those who believed in it or encountered phenomena there “fanatics” and “zealots” before the official approval? One can’t help feel that your constant employment of this terminology is intended to belittle and stigmatize the clergy and laity who go to Medjugorje, not only to pray, but to discern what’s happening there. Isn’t that what St. Paul commanded, and the Pope is literally encouraging by authorizing official pilgrimages? I think this kind of condescension has no place in the Body of Christ.
In that regard, your comment above calling the Blessed Mother (allegedly) an “absurd Croatian chatterbox” while the Vatican continues to examine the apparitions (and a theological commission has already confirmed its authenticity, though unofficially) is the kind of lack of self-awareness that I was speaking of above. In the words of one bishop:
“So she talks too much, this “Virgin of the Balkans”? That’s the sardonic opinion of some unabashed skeptics. Have they eyes but do not see, and ears but do not hear? Clearly the voice in the messages of Medjugorje is that of a motherly and strong woman who does not pamper her children, but teaches them, exhorts and pushes them to assume greater responsibility for the future of our planet: ‘A large part of what will happen depends on your prayers’… We must allow God all the time he wills to take for the transfiguration of all time and space before the Holy Face of the One who is, was, and will come again.” (Bishop Gilbert Aubry, Reunion Island)
Or in the words of Pope Benedict XVI:
“In every age the Church has received the charism of prophecy, which must be scrutinized but not scorned.” —Cardinal Ratzinger, Message of Fatima, Theological Commentary
Incidentally, I’m not denying that there aren’t actual fanatics with regards to Medjugorje. But there are of Fatima, Lourdes, La Salette, etc. and just about any movement in the Church including the Charismatic Renewal, traditionalism, and apologetic’s triumphalism. So, this has nothing to do with Mary, but people, their insecurities, formation, weaknesses, etc. In that regard, they could look to you to find balance. Instead, as we’ve seen, you mock and ridicule them. How sad.
Please RUN to confession and ask the Blessed Mother and Jesus to please forgive you for acting ad God himself and for Judging what you know nothing about
I do pray for you Patrick and when you go to Medjugorje and stay a couple of weeks in prayer send out your APOLOGIES to the world.
Cultish. Very typical.
AMEN. Pray for his soul. It is truly in GRAVE GRAVE DANGER
Patrick, regarding the story about the driver and the handkerchief. Isn’t this an example of Mary contradicting the command of Jesus? And if so, the world was saved by the driver’s obedience to Mary and his disobedience to Jesus?
Way way worse than that. Google the account. It’s not only stupid, it’s occultic.